The Watering Hole

america has spoken very loud and clear!!!  

no more socialism and rebuilding other countries.

what the fuck?????????? obama is no more socialism?

lets have a short review obamas propositions; wealth redistribution, "national" security force, nationalized healthcare, etc.

all hail comrade obama!

All that money he gave to the McCain campaign could have went to help people in need. ;D ;D

Very impressive speech Obama gave.

Proud to have a intelligent, excellent speeker to represent this country, I must say!

I just wish they wouldn't have shown that repulsive, appalling, pitiful excuse for a human being, Jessie Jackson so much. He makes me sick. Kinda ruined it for me, not really, but damn....why show him?

Hookbender — Nov 05, 2008All that money he gave to the McCain campaign could have went to help people in need. ;D ;D

Very impressive speech Obama gave.

Proud to have a intelligent, excellent speeker to represent this country, I must say!

I just wish they wouldn't have shown that repulsive, appalling, pitiful excuse for a human being, Jessie Jackson so much. He makes me sick. Kinda ruined it for me, not really, but damn....why show him?

Mebee cause he kinda dicked out on Obama and now heez crying.

Gonna be real interesting having a minority Socialist Muslim Terrorist leading the "free" world.  ;D

Very impressive speech Obama gave.  

Proud to have a intelligent, excellent speeker to represent this country, I must say!

exactly, and that's why he won. He gives a hell of a speech.  He's is TOTALLY untrained for his new job,  but DAMN he sure sounds good on TV!  

I am not "anti-democrat."  I lean towards the right.  But I'll go on record as saying (Kiss my ass Mrs first lady) that I'm ashamed to be an American right now.  ANY Democrat, but this one!  We elect a president who's wife was never proud to be an American until her husband was selected as a presidential candidate... we elect a president who doesn't solute the flag or the national anthem????  Whose spiritual leader is a racial divider?  Whose has buddies who were home bread terrorists???  Is he even a real citizen of this country?  

Never thought I'd admit that Hillary would be 1000 times better than whoever was elected but...

WE'RE SCREWED!  

Intelligent. Key word.

How are we screwed? I'm guessing you mean the majority of Americans made a mistake tonight? So the majority of Americans could also be making a mistake by being religious?

Look at the people he has helping him. Look at his vision. His desires for this country. He is the American dream come true.

How can he be any worse than Bush? I don't think it's possible.

This is a new America. Probably from this point on. It's exciting.

How bout we get behind Obama and support his effort to fix this shit hole of a mess we've made.

I've been critical of him from day one. I voted for him today.

He's my President.

Howie, I'd have to say those reasons are probably why he won.  Now if there had been a cohesive comprehensive counter plan on the economy and some other pressing issues shown to the American people McCain might have had a chance.

Hookbender — Nov 05, 2008 I'm guessing you mean the majority of Americans made a mistake tonight? So the majority of Americans could also be making a mistake by being religious?

Hook shoots!  Hook scores!  :D

DreamTheaterRules — Nov 05, 2008Very impressive speech Obama gave.  

Proud to have a intelligent, excellent speeker to represent this country, I must say!

exactly, and that's why he won. He gives a hell of a speech.  He's is TOTALLY untrained for his new job,  but DAMN he sure sounds good on TV!
He's prepared. He's smart, calm, inquisitive, and flexible. McCain is no more prepared, and his temperament would have been more dangerous considering his lack of true executive leadership experience. 

I am not "anti-democrat."  I lean towards the right.

Based on what you say next, you ARE anti-democrat...or at least really foolish and susceptible to GOP talking points (read: LIES)

But I'll go on record as saying (Kiss my ass Mrs first lady) that I'm ashamed to be an American right now.  ANY Democrat, but this one!  We elect a president who's wife was never proud to be an American until her husband was selected as a presidential candidate...

That's not what she said. She has been proud of her country, just not REALLY proud of it. The question of pride isn't yes or no, it's how much. Most of you right-slurpers missed that point because the clip spread around of her saying what she said had been edited to remove the "really" (thanks, right-wing bloggers and Matt Drudge!)

we elect a president who doesn't solute the flag or the national anthem????

He salutes the flag all the time. You, like all the other fools, bought into an e-mail forward that showed him standing respectfully at attention DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM (not the pledge, as the e-mail so often stated), without his hand on his heart, which isn't wrong except to those who don't know how to honor the flag (or the rules about it).

Whose spiritual leader is a racial divider?

Examples, please? And not the isolated "God Damn America" speech. I bet you can't come up with any that I can't show you something that has the opposite message (one of love and Christian brotherhood).

Whose has buddies who were home bread terrorists???

Not his buddy...his neighbor and occasional colleague (Ayers even said so today when he talked to the press - that he wished he knew Obama more than he did). Let's not forget home-bred terrorist G. Gordon Liddy, McCain's pal. They're a bit closer than Obama and Ayers.

Is he even a real citizen of this country?

As much as you or me...that's a proven fact, verified by even Fox News.  

Never thought I'd admit that Hillary would be 1000 times better than whoever was elected but...

WE'RE SCREWED!

You've reached Stratman-esque levels of ignorance, Howie, if you believe the bullshit you just posted. You haven't done your homework, and you're part of the problem with the discourse in this country. You don't know what you're talking about, yet you're confident you do, and you're pissed off about a bunch of shit that is, well, SHIT.  

Tripper

no question he can read a teleprompter well.

but who here can legitimately say he has the qualification or even the ability to be an effective commander in chief?  when it is all said and done i'm afraid he will be revealed for what he really is; a boy in a mans job.

and questioning mccains executive leadership?

lets compare...

OBAMA
state senator from 97-04
senator from 05-09

McCAIN
US HOUSE REPS from 83-87
senator since 1987

mccain chaired the senate commerce commitee for 8 years.

do we need to look at military service? that might matter seeing as how the president is also commander in chief of our military. mccain served from 1960-1973 with 67-73 being served as a POW. you can learn what you need to about the character of that man from his actions, not his words.

john mccain is an american hero

chase — Nov 05, 2008what the fuck?????????? obama is no more socialism?

lets have a short review obamas propositions; wealth redistribution, "national" security force, nationalized healthcare, etc.

all hail comrade obama!

Welcome back to the hole.  Did you start smoking crack recently?  

The progressive income tax is just simple reality.  I have no problem with the rich paying 3% more.  If you are not, I'm sure there's some rich guy out there who is really on your side, and he will thank you profusely.  A national security force?  That's an intentional misreading of what Obama said.  He's saying security begins at home... which everyone, I think, agrees with.  Nationalized healthcare?  McCain supported a plan that cost within a billion dollars of Obama's, and covered 34 million less people.  

Get your facts straight.  And stop watching Fox News.  It's bad for clear thinking.

DreamTheaterRules — Nov 05, 2008
But I'll go on record as saying (Kiss my ass Mrs first lady) that I'm ashamed to be an American right now.  

We elect a president who's wife was never proud to be an American until her husband was selected as a presidential candidate

I wonder if you even get the irony of this.

It's time to get behind the president.  Bush barely won in his first term, 271 to 269, and he lost the popular vote.  Yet he claimed he would unite the country.  Instead he divided it more than ever.  Obama has won a DECISIVE victory, at least 359 to something in the 100s for McCain.  And he's won the popular vote decisively, by at least 5 points.  He's promised to unite the country.  The only thing that is going to fuck our country further is whiners like you.

I won't respond to the rest of your crap, since it's just that.

chase — Nov 05, 2008and questioning mccains executive leadership?

lets compare...

OBAMA
state senator from 97-04
senator from 05-09

McCAIN
US HOUSE REPS from 83-87
senator since 1987

mccain chaired the senate commerce commitee for 8 years.

do we need to look at military service? that might matter seeing as how the president is also commander in chief of our military. mccain served from 1960-1973 with 67-73 being served as a POW. you can learn what you need to about the character of that man from his actions, not his words.

john mccain is an american hero

So what?  Jesse Helms was a senator for 30 years. He chaired the Senate Foreigh Relations Committee for 7 years.  I don't think anyone would argue he therefore deserved to be president.  

As far as I am concerned, McCain is a decent guy with decent experience (sure, there was that Keating thing...).  But picking Palin was the first nail in his coffin.  His horrendous performance in the first two debates were the second and third nails.  The fact that he could not run a campaign on his positives, but only on Obama's negatives, was the final nail in his campaign's coffin.

This is the politics section, but it's not the crying section.  This is an indisputable result, and election that is not only not very close, but not confined to the normal breakdown of red states and blue states.  I realize you are in the South, and people feel a little differently down there, but it sounds like you are a little out of touch with the real mood of the nation.

Hookbender — Nov 05, 2008Intelligent. Key word.

How are we screwed? I'm guessing you mean the majority of Americans made a mistake tonight? So the majority of Americans could also be making a mistake by being religious?

Look at the people he has helping him. Look at his vision. His desires for this country. He is the American dream come true.

How can he be any worse than Bush? I don't think it's possible.

This is a new America. Probably from this point on. It's exciting.

How bout we get behind Obama and support his effort to fix this shit hole of a mess we've made.

I've been critical of him from day one. I voted for him today.

He's my President.

Hey, nice to see you got on board!  Let's see if all the whiners can now put aside their partisan bullshit and try to help fix the country.

charger — Nov 05, 2008[quote author=chase link=1225860285/0#1 date=1225862935]what the fuck?????????? obama is no more socialism?

lets have a short review obamas propositions; wealth redistribution, "national" security force, nationalized healthcare, etc.

all hail comrade obama!

Welcome back to the hole.  Did you start smoking crack recently?  

The progressive income tax is just simple reality.  I have no problem with the rich paying 3% more.  If you are not, I'm sure there's some rich guy out there who is really on your side, and he will thank you profusely.  A national security force?  That's an intentional misreading of what Obama said.  He's saying security begins at home... which everyone, I think, agrees with.  Nationalized healthcare?  McCain supported a plan that cost within a billion dollars of Obama's, and covered 34 million less people.  

Get your facts straight.  And stop watching Fox News.  It's bad for clear thinking.


no crack today, just redbull (same thing).

civilian national security force from his own mouth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y

i understand the tax issue from both points of view. yes it is a measly 3% but you and i both know the top 10% of earners already pay 66% of the income taxes in this country while earning 45% of the AGI and that the lower 50% only pay 4% while earning ~13% of the AGI. my point is its a slippery slope we are sliding off of. take for instance obamas proposed tax plan which would essentialy write a check funded in part by you and me to those who pay no income taxes.

i tend to stick with the writers of the constitution on the issue of taxes. they allowed 2 types of taxes; indirect taxes on commerce and direct but APPORTIONED taxes on individuals. after the .gov started taxing income the supreme court ruled it unconstitutional as it was a direct UNAPPORTIONED tax. the 16th amendment was only passed because it applied to practically nobody. income taxes to me meet the classic example of boiling a frog. put him in when it's hot and he will hop out; put him in and THAN turn up the heat and he will sit in the pot and boil alive

lets see whats left, healthcare? yes mccains healthcare plan was worthless, but so is obamas in my POV. projected $100B to get off the ground and running? another example of what i dont like to see and that is the expansion of bureaucracy.

to give you insight into my political views i fully support ron paul. that might explain some of the problems i have with the way things are going

charger — Nov 05, 2008[quote author=chase link=1225860285/0#11 date=1225870586]and questioning mccains executive leadership?

lets compare...

OBAMA
state senator from 97-04
senator from 05-09

McCAIN
US HOUSE REPS from 83-87
senator since 1987

mccain chaired the senate commerce commitee for 8 years.

do we need to look at military service? that might matter seeing as how the president is also commander in chief of our military. mccain served from 1960-1973 with 67-73 being served as a POW. you can learn what you need to about the character of that man from his actions, not his words.

john mccain is an american hero

So what?  Jesse Helms was a senator for 30 years. He chaired the Senate Foreigh Relations Committee for 7 years.  I don't think anyone would argue he therefore deserved to be president.  

As far as I am concerned, McCain is a decent guy with decent experience (sure, there was that Keating thing...).  But picking Palin was the first nail in his coffin.  His horrendous performance in the first two debates were the second and third nails.  The fact that he could not run a campaign on his positives, but only on Obama's negatives, was the final nail in his campaign's coffin.

This is the politics section, but it's not the crying section.  This is an indisputable result, and election that is not only not very close, but not confined to the normal breakdown of red states and blue states.  I realize you are in the South, and people feel a little differently down there, but it sounds like you are a little out of touch with the real mood of the nation.

was i crying in your thread? i think not. i was stating the fact that john mccain has a record of public service and leadership in response to trippers implying mccain has a lack of "true executive leadership experience". looking at the facts its clear obama is in no way more qualified or has more expereince in leadership.

Looks like he's getting ready!  :D

chase — Nov 05, 2008what the fuck?????????? obama is no more socialism?

lets have a short review obamas propositions; wealth redistribution, "national" security force, nationalized healthcare, etc.

all hail comrade obama!

well his socialism is to the people, not to Corporate America.

DreamTheaterRules — Nov 05, 2008Very impressive speech Obama gave.  

Proud to have a intelligent, excellent speeker to represent this country, I must say!

exactly, and that's why he won. He gives a hell of a speech.  He's is TOTALLY untrained for his new job,  but DAMN he sure sounds good on TV!  

I am not "anti-democrat."  I lean towards the right.  But I'll go on record as saying (Kiss my ass Mrs first lady) that I'm ashamed to be an American right now.  ANY Democrat, but this one!  We elect a president who's wife was never proud to be an American until her husband was selected as a presidential candidate... we elect a president who doesn't solute the flag or the national anthem????  Whose spiritual leader is a racial divider?  Whose has buddies who were home bread terrorists???  Is he even a real citizen of this country?  

Never thought I'd admit that Hillary would be 1000 times better than whoever was elected but...

WE'RE SCREWED!  



You truly are one Brainwashed Xian Fundy. Ill pray for you.

chase — Nov 05, 2008no question he can read a teleprompter well.

but who here can legitimately say he has the qualification or even the ability to be an effective commander in chief?  when it is all said and done i'm afraid he will be revealed for what he really is; a boy in a mans job.

I bet you think Bush was an effective commander in cheif? please give it up man. let the man have a chance and then judge him.

my point is its a slippery slope we are sliding off of. take for instance....... meet the classic example of boiling a frog. put him in when it's hot and he will hop out; put him in and THAN turn up the heat and he will sit in the pot and boil alive

Sliipery slope fallacy and the boiling frog myth together. ;D

take for instance obamas proposed tax plan which would essentialy write a check funded in part by you and me to those who pay no income taxes.  

ok and what about the money we will eventually have to pay for the IRAQ debacle? its going to be US who foots that bill, is that ok with you?

I'll put one post down here since the election is over.

Quote from Charger....

I wonder if you even get the irony of this.

It's time to get behind the president. Bush barely won in his first term, 271 to 269, and he lost the popular vote.  Yet he claimed he would unite the country.  Instead he divided it more than ever.  Obama has won a DECISIVE victory, at least 359 to something in the 100s for McCain.  And he's won the popular vote decisively, by at least 5 points.  He's promised to unite the country.  The only thing that is going to fuck our country further is whiners like you.

I won't respond to the rest of your crap, since it's just that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, this coming from a person and a party that REFUSED to get behind the present president....for 8 years! ;D

With the exception of Chase and Howie...the rest of these posts are blantantly ignorant & laughable. ;D

Hold on to your wallets...even you big liberals...you're fixing to be pick pocketed.
If you're at all successful, you just gave away YOUR ranch for a Socialist ideal.
You won't realize you screwed yourselves until it's about a foot up your asses. ;D

*You just put Israel on borrowed time.
When they go down....I want you to pat yourselves on your back as YOU will be responsible.

*You just shot down ANY chance at America drilling it's own oil thereby insuring that we WILL be buying mideast oil and will be at their mercy.
Pelosi, Reid and the Dem party will see to it that gas will go back up to $5.00 a gallon after January as they hate oil & gas.
So go buy a bike and pull your boat to the lake. :D

*You just insured that ZERO nuclear plants will be built thereby insuring that electricity now has a clear pathway to go sky high in the future.
Clean coal usage has already been trashed by Obama himself and he's promised to bankrupt anyone that builds a plant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOmv9ZOD_Js&feature=related

*Watch your 401K's...Obama already says he has his eyes on it.

*You just gave away your 2cd amendment rights...so get ready to turn in yer guns.  :D

*The Gov now OWNS Fannie & Freddie....the Dems crashed thanks to Bawney Fwank...and blamed it everyone else.
Now only Soc/Lib/Dems can get away with that. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBRIsCkGQ0

*Get ready for the UNFAIRNESS ACT. This will kill A.M. talk radio....for the Conservatives anyway. Airhead America will now be gov. funded.  ;D

The only silver lining here is that the Dems did NOT get the 60 vote, filabuster proof numbers that they wanted in the Senate. :D

So I invite everyone here to congratulate our Socialist, Liberal, Democrat friends on this 1st Obama Day.
Keep a smile on yer faces as they will SOON be in the same boat we are.....Up the creek without a paddle.  ;D

In closing....I leave you with this.....
God help us all...Amer'ca has just gone Socialist.
It's a loser's paradise.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4&feature=related

2cd version..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvxiG56M-eU&feature=related

I love this thread -
To witness so much whining and whinging is just fantastic.

Thank you  8-)

chase — Nov 05, 2008
was i crying in your thread? i think not. i was stating the fact that john mccain has a record of public service and leadership in response to trippers implying mccain has a lack of "true executive leadership experience". looking at the facts its clear obama is in no way more qualified or has more expereince in leadership.

Absolute nonsense

I liked McCain before this election.
But face it -  he showed his leadership competence in the campaign - it was shit, badly organised and he appointed dopey as his VP running mate.

by contrast Obama oozed competence and slick effortless leadership

Using the campaigns alone to compare leadership qualities - Obama wins by a landslide.

chase — Nov 05, 2008no question he can read a teleprompter well.

He writes the speeches, too. It helps...

but who here can legitimately say he has the qualification or even the ability to be an effective commander in chief?  when it is all said and done i'm afraid he will be revealed for what he really is; a boy in a mans job.

I will. I think you're completely wrong about Obama, and you will be proven wrong over the next four years. His management of his campaign was brilliant, and his management of his branch of government will be the same. As for how much America will go with him, well, that remains to be seen, because there are still people like you out there who don't want to accept that smart people can learn to be really good at running things very quickly.

But we can disagree on that...and we'll see who's right when he wins a second term in an even bigger landslide in four years.

(Okay, that last part was just an arrogant joke - I have no fucking clue what will happen...I just HOPE it will be good and think we've got a better shot at improving our situation with a really smart person in charge for a change)
Tripper

strategery — Nov 05, 2008I'll put one post down here since the election is over.

Oh, we'll SO miss your insightful commentary...

Wow, this coming from a person and a party that REFUSED to get behind the present president....for 8 years! ;D

Not true. We were all behind him after 9/11, even though it was his fuckup, and he pissed that away.

With the exception of Chase and Howie...the rest of these posts are blantantly ignorant & laughable. ;D

Only to someone so pathetically partisan that they can't even accept reality and still ignore the truth about Obama's plans for this country and how he really wants everyone to take responsibility, including himself.

Hold on to your wallets...even you big liberals...you're fixing to be pick pocketed.
If you're at all successful, you just gave away YOUR ranch for a Socialist ideal.
You won't realize you screwed yourselves until it's about a foot up your asses. ;D

By raising taxes to Clinton and Reagan levels...yeah, that's Socialism. Dipshit.

*You just put Israel on borrowed time.
When they go down....I want you to pat yourselves on your back as YOU will be responsible.

You stoke violence and fear in the name of keeping the Jews in the right place so Jesus can come back and kill them all. Obama clearly wants the state of Israel to survive, but for the region to work its way toward peace, and that doesn't work when you're just one-sided on the issue.

*You just shot down ANY chance at America drilling it's own oil thereby insuring that we WILL be buying mideast oil and will be at their mercy.
Pelosi, Reid and the Dem party will see to it that gas will go back up to $5.00 a gallon after January as they hate oil & gas.
So go buy a bike and pull your boat to the lake. :D

We don't have that much control over oil prices...and drilling wouldn't have done shit for probably 10 years. Obama has clearly stated in the past that he's not opposed to sensible expansion of oil drilling. SENSIBLE - you know, that thing you don't know how to be?

*You just insured that ZERO nuclear plants will be built thereby insuring that electricity now has a clear pathway to go sky high in the future.

Figure out a good way to ensure the safety of the waste (both from terrorists and for its disposal), and we'll build a bunch of them wherever people will let us.

Clean coal usage has already been trashed by Obama himself and he's promised to bankrupt anyone that builds a plant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOmv9ZOD_Js&feature=related

This is indicative of how suckered you are by talking points. Obama said he WANTS clean coal, and LIKE JOHN MCCAIN supports a cap and trade system where it's very expensive for (read: will bankrupt) a plant to operate if they don't find ways to clean up their emissions. Nuance has never been your strong point, and understanding a complex issue isn't something I've ever seen you do.

*Watch your 401K's...Obama already says he has his eyes on it.

Where did he say that?

*You just gave away your 2cd amendment rights...so get ready to turn in yer guns.  :D

Good to see you're still using that stupid "2cd" bullshit. Obama's not going to take your guns. Duh.

*The Gov now OWNS Fannie & Freddie....the Dems crashed thanks to Bawney Fwank...and blamed it everyone else.
Now only Soc/Lib/Dems can get away with that. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBRIsCkGQ0

Wow, that's an incredible misrepresentation of what happened! No shock...

*Get ready for the UNFAIRNESS ACT. This will kill A.M. talk radio....for the Conservatives anyway. Airhead America will now be gov. funded.  ;D

It affects both sides, doofus, if it even passes. Don't be a douchebag.

The only silver lining here is that the Dems did NOT get the 60 vote, filabuster proof numbers that they wanted in the Senate. :D

It's spelled "filibuster" - we're not busting tennis shoes or track suits.

So I invite everyone here to congratulate our Socialist, Liberal, Democrat friends on this 1st Obama Day.
Keep a smile on yer faces as they will SOON be in the same boat we are.....Up the creek without a paddle.  ;D

We have a very strong paddle - a shared responsibility for America's future, and someone who wants to make this country better for everyone.

In closing....I leave you with this.....
God help us all...Amer'ca has just gone Socialist.
It's a loser's paradise.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4&feature=related

America's technically been "Socialist" in many areas since its founding...but I know you don't really know what socialism is, so we'll forgive you for that. It's not going to get any more "Socialist" than it is when it nationalizes banks.

2cd version..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvxiG56M-eU&feature=related

Is that the 2-CD or 2-DVD version?

Tripper

There is nothing more socialist than the military.

I've just read the translation of his whole speech....

What a MAN !!!!

I wish every country to have a same one....

Randy, DTR, chase....

You  should READ it .... ;)

The — Nov 05, 2008[quote author=chase link=1225860285/0#10 date=1225869613]no question he can read a teleprompter well.

but who here can legitimately say he has the qualification or even the ability to be an effective commander in chief?  when it is all said and done i'm afraid he will be revealed for what he really is; a boy in a mans job.

I bet you think Bush was an effective commander in cheif? please give it up man. let the man have a chance and then judge him.


quit dragging this off course. my issue is obama is not qualified to lead our military. bush's catastrophic failures are another thread altogether

Tigerbill — Nov 05, 2008I've just read the translation of his whole speech....

What a MAN !!!!

I wish every country to have a same one....

Randy, DTR, chase....

You  should READ it .... ;)

i listened to it; as i said before it was a good speech. tigerbill i'm willing to bet you have no clue about any of the points im raising here in this thread. if you take the time to look at the issues than please come back and contribute. if you don't than please refrain

The — Nov 05, 2008[quote author=chase link=1225860285/0#1 date=1225862935]what the fuck?????????? obama is no more socialism?

lets have a short review obamas propositions; wealth redistribution, "national" security force, nationalized healthcare, etc.

all hail comrade obama!

well his socialism is to the people, not to Corporate America.


it's to both assman. remember that bailout that he voted for....

i'm not knocking the passing of that package as i believe it was necessary at the time. whether it was good or bad, necessary or not, it does stink of socialism; as do many of his ideas. america has been sliding towards socialism for the last 100 years, obama is only another brick in the road

chase — Nov 05, 2008
was i crying in your thread? i think not. i was stating the fact that john mccain has a record of public service and leadership in response to trippers implying mccain has a lack of "true executive leadership experience". looking at the facts its clear obama is in no way more qualified or has more expereince in leadership.

I agree with you, McCain has more experience.  He's older.  He's been in the Senate a long time.  He just has more experience.  I totally disagree that such experience means anything.  It clearly doesn't mean he can make good choices:  

• He picked Sarah Palin for VP.  Sure, "conservatives" liked her.  But they were already voting for him.
  
• He "suspended his campaign to fix the economy".
  
• In the last month of the campaign, he chose for his messenger, someone who really represented America to him, a white, middle class, Republican plumber from Ohio.  
  
• He had no clear message, but instead, a thousand different ones, depending on the day of the week and how bad the polls looked.  For contrast, look at the message Obama was presenting two months ago compared to his message two days ago.  There is a LOT to be said for consistency.
  
• His campaign looked, a lot of the time, disorganized and unable to stay on message.  From the amount of behind the scenes dirt that "high level campaign operatives" aired seemingly every day, you would think McCain was running the Prom committee at a local high school.  
  
• He ran on negatives.  Can you think of a single good executive who thinks they can sell product by denigrating their opponent?  People want to hear positives about you, not negatives about your opponent.  How many iPods you think Apple would have sold if, instead of making a cool product, they just advertised about how Creative's players sucked?  At some point, as an executive, you have to have a message about YOU.
  
• By far the biggest flaw--and Obama's biggest executive contrast--was in the "ground game."  Go take a look at fivethirtyeight.com, where they have cataloged the ground game in every swing state they visited.  Look at the paltry number of McCain offices, at how many of them are closed when they come by, at how few volunteers appear to work the phones or walk the neighborhoods.  By contrast, Obama's campaign was masterful--brilliantly organized, conceived, and executed.  If executive experience means you can't organize your campaign, and "community organizing experience" means you can create the kind of organization that Obama put in place, I'll take the community organizer every time.
  

In the end, his experience did not translate into any real executive ability.  Obama didn't need to match his experience.  He just needed to demonstrate executive ability, which he clearly has demonstrated, and which McCain has not.

chase — Nov 05, 2008[quote author=Tigerbill link=1225860285/25#30 date=1225900219]I've just read the translation of his whole speech....

What a MAN !!!!

I wish every country to have a same one....

Randy, DTR, chase....

You  should READ it .... ;)

i listened to it; as i said before it was a good speech. tigerbill i'm willing to bet you have no clue about any of the points im raising here in this thread. if you take the time to look at the issues than please come back and contribute. if you don't than please refrain

Now that's a clever way to say "shut the fuck up"
Thanks...  >:( >:( >:(

That beeing said, I DO have a clue. I follow this election day by day from the beginning. 8-) 8-)

on the campaings i agree with you completely. obama ran a tight ship that revolutionized the way campaigns will be ran. he wedded his grass root supporters to the internet creating a massive network for his support. the way mccains campaign was run is the reason he lost in my opinion; not because obama was as a vastly superior choice.


all this is moot now as the election has been decided anyways. i think everyone understands how i feel

chase — Nov 05, 2008on the campaings i agree with you completely. obama ran a tight ship that revolutionized the way campaigns will be ran. he wedded his grass root supporters to the internet creating a massive network for his support. the way mccains campaign was run is the reason he lost in my opinion; not because obama was as a vastly superior choice.


all this is moot now as the election has been decided anyways. i think everyone understands how i feel

Like a bunch of other people in Kentucky?  With your small-government views, did you vote for McCain?

given the choice between the 2 candidates i did vote for mccain. make no mistake i don't agree with his social programs either; i have no illusions about what he would have done had he been elected with respect to increasing government spending, oversight, etc.

my vote for mccain was more a vote against obama rather than the support of mccain. while i truly believe he is an american hero he was simply the lesser of the 2 evils in truth.
sadly my man ron paul was out of the race a long time ago. while he had some outlandish views i agree with his core values moreso than any other candidate

I know you won't read this Strat, but here it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

chase — Nov 05, 2008given the choice between the 2 candidates i did vote for mccain. make no mistake i don't agree with his social programs either; i have no illusions about what he would have done had he been elected with respect to increasing government spending, oversight, etc.

my vote for mccain was more a vote against obama rather than the support of mccain. while i truly believe he is an american hero he was simply the lesser of the 2 evils in truth.
sadly my man ron paul was out of the race a long time ago. while he had some outlandish views i agree with his core values moreso than any other candidate

What social programs, that are in effect today, do you disagree with? What social programs of McCains do you dislike and why?

Lessor of two evils, I use to see it that way to. Now I've decided to consider which candidate has the best plan for America first, then decide if he seems sincere in his desire to accomplish his goals knowing he won't be able to do everything. The evil you mentioned is politics in general, in my opinion. Not the desire the candidates have to improve our country. We can't agree with everything a candidate says or wants, but one surely has the greater interest.

As with Obama, most "evils" can  be eliminated by simply checking out the facts and doing some reasearch. Or, you can just simply believe Obama is a terrorist and a muslim that hates America like some of the ignorant rednecks in the south seem to think. Many people at my office simply can't believe I voted for Obama. Some of the comments I heard were shocking when they heard my choice.

i didn't say any of those rumors you just brought up. i did plenty of research on the candidates proposals. what decided my vote against obama was several issues

1st- cut military spending by 1/3 to 1/4. big no-no for me
2nd- didn't like the structure of his tax plan
3rd- don't like his stance on 2nd amendment issues. regardless of what he says go look at his voting record; some of what he voted for blows my mind.
4th- ZERO military experience yet will lead our nations military into a very tumultuous time in history with iran/isreal/iraq/afghanistan/etc.
5th- nationalized healthcare


social programs i don't like... about all of them. does that sum it up? again my political views are that of a minarchist.

chase — Nov 05, 2008i didn't say any of those rumors you just brought up. i did plenty of research on the candidates proposals. what decided my vote against obama was several issues

1st- cut military spending by 1/3 to 1/4. big no-no for me

All he'd have to do is end the war to succeed in this one.

2nd- didn't like the structure of his tax plan

A fair argument, though it doesn't make much sense to me, when you compare it to McCain's.

3rd- don't like his stance on 2nd amendment issues. regardless of what he says go look at his voting record; some of what he voted for blows my mind.

This one's pretty much a non-starter, since as president he'll have no influence on gun legislation. It's actually BETTER to have him out of the Senate if this issue is important to you.

4th- ZERO military experience yet will lead our nations military into a very tumultuous time in history with iran/isreal/iraq/afghanistan/etc.

Like he won't surround himself with brilliant, experienced military minds a la Colin Powell? (I am aware that Powell doesn't want to be in government anymore...people LIKE Powell, though) No president is an island...and you pick the guy who knows how to pick guys. Obama's shown he's VERY GOOD at picking and managing a good staff.

5th- nationalized healthcare

I can tell by this you really haven't paid much attention to the details of how Obama's plan works. It's not nationalized healthcare like in Scandinavian countries...it's actually nowhere near as broad, but the free market isn't working for health care, and his plan answers a lot of the questions we have with what we've got. I think it's kind of weak, myself. I think nationalized healthcare, run efficiently, works a shitload better than what we've got, in terms of how it actually affects the livelihood of the citizens of this country.

social programs i don't like... about all of them. does that sum it up? again my political views are that of a minarchist.

Well, that explains everything. :)
Tripper

Take a look at the spending over the last 8 years which represents your "minarchist"  government of the best of two evils

The military is by far the the largest  organised arm of  government and one you are subject to joining on a presidential decree whether you like it or not.
Once you live under the direct orders of the executive of the state - it is socialism, collectivism - it is bullshit to argue otherwise, you are arguing about degree alone.

4th- ZERO military experience yet will lead our nations military into a very tumultuous time in history with iran/isreal/iraq/afghanistan/etc.

If you believe that to be an Obama killer flaw then you should have voted Kerry at the last election.
If you voted for GWB- so much for your argument.

And I agree that most people don't think rationally and are not researched on these matters as they are complex.

It is much much easier to fall into labels and dogma.

You know - like being a "minarchist" -  what does it mean exactly.
Where do you stand on infrastructure, roads, urban/city planning, energy policies, policy generally.

Maybe only the military is to do with government right - ok - so the general infrastructure the military relies on is outside of the remit.

So the form of government you favour is one that can tax only  for military purposes, but has the right to order citizens  to join the military by conscription so they can send them to fight somewhere for "important commercial interests" and meanwhile the "important commercial interests" makes a profit out of the whole escapade - out of the tax payers.

The proverbial turkey voting for Christmas and Thanksgiving as essential to it's freedom to be a Turkey :D

True - People are dumb and ill informed and some show an astonishing lack of self awareness on the matter  :P

chase — Nov 05, 2008i didn't say any of those rumors you just brought up. i did plenty of research on the candidates proposals. what decided my vote against obama was several issues

1st- cut military spending by 1/3 to 1/4. big no-no for me
2nd- didn't like the structure of his tax plan
3rd- don't like his stance on 2nd amendment issues. regardless of what he says go look at his voting record; some of what he voted for blows my mind.
4th- ZERO military experience yet will lead our nations military into a very tumultuous time in history with iran/isreal/iraq/afghanistan/etc.
5th- nationalized healthcare


social programs i don't like... about all of them. does that sum it up? again my political views are that of a minarchist.

You have an extreme minority view about politics.  It seems you should be voting for Ron Paul or Bob Barr or someone.  Yet you vote for McCain, a person who shares virtually none of your views, over Obama.  And your first statement about the whole election is about racism?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Well, I agree with Trip.

On the military thing, maybe spending less money together with good advice could mean he could do more with less. And I think Obama is open to cancel that if expert advice is given with reasonable explanations. He may be advised agaist that. He's going to be hit with all kinds of information he's never had in the next few weeks concerning the war status, military advice etc. His plans could change. I feel he'll make a well thought out decision on that.

charger — Nov 05, 2008 Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

The 51st state!  :D

charger — Nov 05, 2008 You have an extreme minority view about politics.  It seems you should be voting for Ron Paul or Bob Barr or someone.  Yet you vote for McCain, a person who shares virtually none of your views, over Obama.  

I'm curious if he really DOES have an extreme minority view or if there are many like him who don't realize that there are other parties out there that fit their views better so they vote for whichever of the two main candidates they feel is the lesser of the two evils...

Fresh meat.....and they pounce. ;D

Bombardment style!   ;D ;D

::)

i fully supported ron paul and still do, however a write in for ron paul would have been a vote for obama. didn't make much difference in kentucky however as it was pretty decisively republican.