The Watering Hole

If I wanted to win the argument I'd be posting 37 articles and reading hours upon hours in hopes of finding a article, which would be easy to do actually, to refute the shit posted by the liberals and we would still be in the same place we are now.

 
No..that would be only looking for aricles that support your preconcieved notions.

Doing like Binge says and looking at the arguments away from politics and straining to see those views that differ from yours is the way to the truth of the matter...if there is one.

Critical thinking.

If anything you should spend hours looking for the best articles that disagree with what you believe and see if you can understand that position.

In other words ...being critical of your own position.

Challenging your beliefs.

And it wouldn't be winning an argument. It would just make you more of a tool. ;)

From M Shermer:

Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending
beliefs they arrived at for nonsmart reasons.

Rarely do any of us sit down before a table of facts, weigh them pro and
con, and choose the most logical and rational explanation, regardless of
what we previously believed. Most of us, most of the time, come to our
beliefs for a variety of reasons having little to do with empirical
evidence and logical reasoning. Rather, such variables as genetic
predisposition, parental predilection, sibling influence, peer pressure,
educational experience and life impressions all shape the personality
preferences that, in conjunction with numerous social and cultural
influences, lead us to our beliefs. We then sort through the body of
data and select those that most confirm what we already believe, and
ignore or rationalize away those that do not.

.....That's conformation bias.

You supoosedly read his book.

And what do you know about Stratman? Do you realize how much he laughed at you as you jumped on the Charger boat etc and became the fish instead of the fisherman?

yeah... he made that pretty clear, publically, here and/or the WH.

But he can be a troll if he wants. I don't get any enjoyement out that sort of thing.

I don't look at it that way....fish or fisherman ::)

pickmaster60 — Sep 15, 2010And what do you know about Stratman? Do you realize how much he laughed at you as you jumped on the Charger boat etc and became the fish instead of the fisherman?

yeah... he made that pretty clear, publically, here and/or the WH.

But he can be a troll if he wants. I don't get any enjoyement out that sort of thing.

I don't look at it that way....fish or fisherman ::)




Stratman is one of those 52% who believe that Obama is trying to enact worldwide Islamic law.  He posted that on my Facebook page when I posted that ridiculous poll.  Funguy to have a beer with, but really, politically and critically, a moron.  

Stratman was only mildly amusing.


Kev on the other hand...   I miss that cat.

BINGEWOOD — Sep 15, 2010Stratman was only mildly amusing.


Kev on the other hand...   I miss that cat.

Not if you aim well - just lead him a bit when he's jogging...  ;)

Yeah, Kev-a-roo was fun - Randy, not so much.

Hookbender — Sep 14, 2010[quote author=charger link=1283378290/125#129 date=1284504951]It's not a hard question, Hook. Which costs more, treating a serious disease early, or late in its progress.

OK, I'll bite, early.


So you think it costs more to treat a serious disease early than it does in the later stages?

Then I can see why you are against health care. The whole point is to save money by getting people to do preventive care things, to get healthier, to go to the doctor for checkups and early with symptoms. If they go late, we basically get what we have now--the uninsured show up, critically ill, dying, never having gotten treatment in the early stages of a disease, and then as they die it costs a fortune. The taxpayers pay this money now.  The idea of healthcare reform is that, if everybody has healthcare, less people will wait until it's too late, and overall the costs to society will be cheaper. Does that seem reasonable, or do you think it is liberal hogwash?

The policies of Obama are making things worse and you argue to defend him because your little mountain goat town is still looking the same.  

Actually it doesn't look the same.

We have had the main Hy here redone and made safer. This is about 15 miles and includes a downtown section in Guntersville.

The road I live on has been repaved...and well done.

We are expanding our airport for larger jets and increased business and companies at the airport are moving in ....and more to come.Partly due to the reinvestment act.

Thanks to the growing Hispanic population our downtown old buildings are full of small business. Before they were empty and falling apart.

A few new small malls with major retailers moving in.

Ect.

All this while recovering from a major tornado in Albertville that tore up our HS(and many,around 200 houses,businesses) while it was being rebuilt and added onto.
http://warmsouthernbreeze.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/tornado-rips-severe-damage-through-albertville-alabama/



http://www.sandmountainreporter.com/story.lasso?ewcd=b831d929e4d71b49

After getting the go-ahead from the Albertville city council Monday night to proceed with the American Family Entertainment center, city leaders are gearing up to beat a Nov. 1 deadline and try to save the city $2 million.

According to Albertville Mayor Lindsey Lyons, the city received news that it had qualified for an American Recovery Zone and Reinvestment Act allocation Sept. 1, after being told they had been denied.

Hook:

Nobody blames Obama for the mess we're in.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/september_2010/50_blame_bush_for_bad_economy_42_blame_obama

Before the repubs started bashing it was much less.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/bush-obama-economy

http://www.gallup.com/poll/127472/bush-gets-more-blame-economy-obama.aspx

At any rate many people do blame Obama.Particularly Republicans and older people.

charger — Sep 15, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1283378290/125#131 date=1284506325][quote author=charger link=1283378290/125#129 date=1284504951]It's not a hard question, Hook. Which costs more, treating a serious disease early, or late in its progress.

OK, I'll bite, early.


So you think it costs more to treat a serious disease early than it does in the later stages?

Then I can see why you are against health care. The whole point is to save money by getting people to do preventive care things, to get healthier, to go to the doctor for checkups and early with symptoms. If they go late, we basically get what we have now--the uninsured show up, critically ill, dying, never having gotten treatment in the early stages of a disease, and then as they die it costs a fortune. The taxpayers pay this money now.  The idea of healthcare reform is that, if everybody has healthcare, less people will wait until it's too late, and overall the costs to society will be cheaper. Does that seem reasonable, or do you think it is liberal hogwash?

Maybe he's thinking about people like horses:  Got a problem?  *BANG!*  Problem solved - and cheaply.  ;)

pickmaster60 — Sep 15, 2010I agree with the majority that healthcare shouldn't be fucked with,

Again:

Well, I've been back and forth on this issue and have finally decided to support it, or at least be in favor of it.  

After listening to both sides for, it seems like years, I think we need this to pass if we ever expect to curb the insurance companies rise in rates and dropping people for whatever reasons. And it will probably be decades before this ever hits the table again if it's not passed.

I've heard that  argument that only 30 million people are without insurance and that is a very small percentage. Well, who gives a shit about the percentage? 30 million people without insurance that could be insured by this passing? That's a fucking shit load of people.  

I'm for it, I say get it done and move the fuck on. Obama has been patient long enough. I commend him for that. And, I agree with him, we need to vote and pass this thing. Or they do.

I changed my mind. I'm allowed to do that, I think.

Your example proves I changed my stance on a position. What's the big deal? That's isn't talking out of both sides of my mouth, that's a change in thought on a particular subject....which by the way wasn't in the same thread or the same day, or whatever. I've always had an issue with the timing of the healthcare bill.

I didn't have a say in the healthcare bill anyway. It's not like I could vote on it.

So, let me make myself clear. Just for you Spongebob. I do support healthcare changes or reform in general, but not right now. But as Obama was spending shitloads of money bailing out car dealers and banks and shit, I figured we might as well help out 30 million or so people with healthcare. Much more important, imo.

Out of thousands of post, this is all you could find as evidence of my talking out of both sides of my mouth, Spongebob?   

pickmaster60 — Sep 15, 2010The policies of Obama are making things worse and you argue to defend him because your little mountain goat town is still looking the same.  

Actually it doesn't look the same.

We have had the main Hy here redone and made safer. This is about 15 miles and includes a downtown section in Guntersville.

The road I live on has been repaved...and well done.

We are expanding our airport for larger jets and increased business and companies at the airport are moving in ....and more to come.Partly due to the reinvestment act.

Thanks to the growing Hispanic population our downtown old buildings are full of small business. Before they were empty and falling apart.

A few new small malls with major retailers moving in.

Ect.

All this while recovering from a major tornado in Albertville that tore up our HS(and many,around 200 houses,businesses) while it was being rebuilt and added onto.
http://warmsouthernbreeze.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/tornado-rips-severe-damage-through-albertville-alabama/



http://www.sandmountainreporter.com/story.lasso?ewcd=b831d929e4d71b49

After getting the go-ahead from the Albertville city council Monday night to proceed with the American Family Entertainment center, city leaders are gearing up to beat a Nov. 1 deadline and try to save the city $2 million.

According to Albertville Mayor Lindsey Lyons, the city received news that it had qualified for an American Recovery Zone and Reinvestment Act allocation Sept. 1, after being told they had been denied.

So the road is new....why does that make it safer? I've driven that road many times and the road itself seemed fine to me. The road you live on seemed fine to me. It didn't have pot holes and shit. Smooth going as far as I could see. Even for riding a motorcycle. It "LOOK"s better though. Right? So it's safer, you think.

In April of 2007, the unemployment rate was a low, 2.4%. Today, it's between 8.2 and 9.4%. But you've seen no change? So your population is estimated at 89,000. That would mean roughly 5000 more people are unemployed now than in 2007. You don't see that maybe....but that doesn't mean things are just peachy in your world.

charger — Sep 15, 2010[quote author=Hookbender link=1283378290/125#131 date=1284506325][quote author=charger link=1283378290/125#129 date=1284504951]It's not a hard question, Hook. Which costs more, treating a serious disease early, or late in its progress.

OK, I'll bite, early.


So you think it costs more to treat a serious disease early than it does in the later stages?

Then I can see why you are against health care. The whole point is to save money by getting people to do preventive care things, to get healthier, to go to the doctor for checkups and early with symptoms. If they go late, we basically get what we have now--the uninsured show up, critically ill, dying, never having gotten treatment in the early stages of a disease, and then as they die it costs a fortune. The taxpayers pay this money now.  The idea of healthcare reform is that, if everybody has healthcare, less people will wait until it's too late, and overall the costs to society will be cheaper. Does that seem reasonable, or do you think it is liberal hogwash?

I don't think it's hogwash. It may be considered liberal by some. Doesn't matter what it is to me, really. So yeah, it is reasonable.....but will it work? Anything government touches cost way more than government projects. I would be willing to bet the cost will be higher to society. Much higher, in fact.

Why?  The government isn't running the program.  The insurance companies are.  Like they were before.  Only now, they have to actually cover people who are sick, or who have been sick before.

Those people got covered before.  Even if they didn't have insurance.  They just got covered in emergency rooms, and we paid for that too.  We paid for it by rising insurance costs.  We paid for it by rising medical costs, as hospitals recouped costs for uncovered people by raising their costs.  And we paid for it through our taxes, when local municipalities were forced to cover the costs of the uninsured. Now those people are insured. But the government doesn't run the hospitals, the doctors, or the insurance.  Only the program that helps the people who can't afford insurance on their own to afford it.

It's not perfect.  But it is a damn sight better to absorb the costs equitably than to pretend the problem doesn't exist, and absorb the costs in a fucked up, random way.

So the road is new....why does that make it safer?

Just google up some stuff about infrastructure and roads and bridges. I've already given you a link.

My road in paticular and the bridge built in 1945 was not meant for the traffic it sees.

The road was too narrow and no shoulders. The road was not smooth and had plenty of covered potholes.

It's being used as a cut through for tractor trailors. It was sunk in in many places. They completely removed it all down to the foundation and made it able to handle the traffic.
It was unsafe. It's not like my goat mountain county can afford to do this work for no reason.
Plenty off accidents on that road.

Out of thousands of post, this is all you could find as evidence of my talking out of both sides of my mouth, Spongebob?

Nope. I'm not going to look though 1000's of posts.

I do support healthcare changes or reform in general, but not right now.

The Repubs aren't going to do it. So when? Ten or twenty years from now?
We have been needing it for a long time.

pickmaster60 — Sep 16, 2010So the road is new....why does that make it safer?

The Repubs aren't going to do it. So when? Ten or twenty years from now?
We have been needing it for a long time.


Yep. We could have done it 16 years ago, but Clinton had a Republican congress.  This is the first democratic president and congress since then, and Obama took advantage of the 2 years where he had both houses and the presidency.  That's fucking efficient.  There is never a good time to enact sweeping social legislation.  The New Deal was at a terrible time. The Great Society.  Social Security. Medicare.  None of them was at the right time.  Now, they are indispensable.  Healthcare legislation will be just as important in the future.  Only thing that would have been better would have been a public plan to compete with the private insurers.  But even without that, it's a win for the people of this country, and if Obama loses his next election over it, it will still be a major accomplishment for him, and a huge win for the people.

Add to that financial reform with Elizabeth Warren, and the end of combat ops in Iraq, and Obama gets two big thumbs up from me.  

You don't see that maybe....but that doesn't mean things are just peachy in your world.

Strange......I never thought it was peachy :-?l

National TV doesn't call us Meth Mountain for nothing.

Add to that financial reform with Elizabeth Warren, and the end of combat ops in Iraq, and Obama gets two big thumbs up from me.  
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Yeah... So far I've liked just about everything he's done or tried to do. I would vote for him again.

Like Hook,I worry about the deficit, But I think when the economy gets rolling again he will work on that.

When it does get going I want to see it paid down as much as possible. Right now I reluctantly think we need to spend.

I'll say this. At this point, 2 years into the Obama administration, the Republicans have done nothing at all to make me think they have learned a damn thing from the financial crisis, and they've done nothing to make me believe they are civil, decent humans.