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155 posts
BINGEWOOD #102 · Oct 30, 2008 18:50 UTC
Hookbender — Oct 30, 2008[quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1224882683/75#94 date=1225346188]Hook, you didn't seem to remember certain details that pick did.  Well maybe not forgot but omitted.  People do that a lot in these more extreme situations too.  

I think pick's just looking for a day to day example where you actually see black racism.


What detail did I not remember? I haven't given all the details as far as what I remember.



Right.  You brought up this story as an example of "reverse racism", but you left out the skeezier details that throw doubt on the original premise.  When you told this story before at the old hole, I don't remember you saying anything about being in a car in a rough neighborhood where you were trying to score.  It sounded like you were attacked by a racist mob and got shot while running away.  With these other details added it sounds more like you were about to be some jacked ass cluckers by someone/some people who may have been racists though probably not acting together in "reverse racist" way.  I did like the part about the paper bag though.  heh heh

What "reverse racism" have you seen/been affected by recently?
fingers #103 · Oct 31, 2008 00:04 UTC
Reverse Reverse Racism is the real worry.

You know - where you are racist because you think the other group is racist to you because they think you are racist to them.

Big Issue  


But not as big as the reverse of it. :P
BINGEWOOD #104 · Oct 31, 2008 00:56 UTC
NO... NOT....ANTI REVERSE REVERSE RACISM!!!!!
Hookbender #105 · Oct 31, 2008 09:50 UTC
BINGEWOOD — Oct 30, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1224882683/75#97 date=1225349701][quote author=BINGEWOOD link=1224882683/75#94 date=1225346188]Hook, you didn't seem to remember certain details that pick did.  Well maybe not forgot but omitted.  People do that a lot in these more extreme situations too.  

I think pick's just looking for a day to day example where you actually see black racism.


What detail did I not remember? I haven't given all the details as far as what I remember.



Right.  You brought up this story as an example of "reverse racism", but you left out the skeezier details that throw doubt on the original premise.  When you told this story before at the old hole, I don't remember you saying anything about being in a car in a rough neighborhood where you were trying to score.  It sounded like you were attacked by a racist mob and got shot while running away.  With these other details added it sounds more like you were about to be some jacked ass cluckers by someone/some people who may have been racists though probably not acting together in "reverse racist" way.  I did like the part about the paper bag though.  heh heh

What "reverse racism" have you seen/been affected by recently?

O.K., that's fair. This is how I see it. And this is what happened.

First, there were two separate instances.

The first......we drove in the bad hood just far enough to see people. Pick saw a guy on a bicycle and offered him $20 bucks to get some pot. However much he could get for that amount of money. He rode off and never came back. During that wait, Pick covered his rebel flag with the brown paper bag.

Second.....we decided to leave. We figured he was just gone. Pick was kinda showing me around Bham that night. So he decided to show me this bad hood. So, we rode in the hood just a little more and figured if we see him we see him, if not, we were out of there. We got to the project housing and decided to turn around in the entrance driveway We pulled in, the guy put a gun on Picks head and said, get out of the car. He had a standard Ford escort. He put the car in reverse, floored it, stopped to put it in first, the guy shot me, we hauled ass to the hospital.

The attempt to buy pot had nothing to do with the shooting. We were on the way out. In a different area of the hood. Said nothing to piss anyone off, did nothing to piss anyone off. We were leaving. In my opinion, there were two crimes that night, two separate events that had nothing to do with the other. We tried to buy pot and failed. We attempted to leave and I got shot.

The possibilities are what I've mentioned. Rob us, kill us, or beat the hell out of us.

I can give my experiences with reverse racism dating back to when I was in middle school. But that won't validate my claim. I can give you examples of black people being racist from the net but what I've found is all based on someone's opinion of a situation and not real evidence.

Pick wanted evidence of something he's now admitted occurs. He's even given you a a few of his own experiences when he mentioned racial tension in his school, hearing bad jokes about black people, nasty comments. While this may have been white racist, racism is a form of hate. And it could be assumed that hate for white folk exist from the black people's point of view also. Black people have, or had, a reason to hate, or dislike white people. Not sure I could say that about a white racist.

Picks problem is first, he wanted to argue for the sake of arguing. He picked a little bullshit word out of my post, apparent, and attacked. Maybe I should have worded it.......Durring my time living in Alabama, it is my experience that black people are capable of being racist......

CraigB #106 · Oct 31, 2008 10:31 UTC
Mental note to self: Never ride anywhere with Pick...  ;D
pickmaster60 #107 · Oct 31, 2008 12:36 UTC
He put the car in reverse, floored it, stopped to put it in first, the guy shot me,

I didn't stop the car,I cut the wheels bard and spun the car around putting the car in first gear while still in motion.  He shot just before I turned the wheel while the car was in motion.


We got to the project housing and decided to turn around in the entrance driveway

Actually the entrance to that side of the projects is a bridge for trains.It's barely large enough for two cars to go through as it was made a long time ago.  As soon as you go through your in the hood. To turn around requires a side street and there is one about 20 yards in.

We pulled in, the guy put a gun on Picks head and said, get out of the car

I remember sitting there not to far from where we met my friend and were watching these guys about  30 yards away. We were talking and they moved a little closer while talking to each other ect. I decided to turn around to face the car toward the exit. In doing that we moved closer to them. Then as they moved closer and I thought they wanted to talk one of them approached the vehicle.
At first he said not to move. Then he said get out of the car.

So he decided to show me this bad hood.

Actually we went there with the express purpose of finding some pot. It was the only place I knew to try and get some at the time.

did nothing to piss anyone off
Except having a rebel flag tag on the front of the car.  I lightly hung a paper bag over the tag realizing it might cause offence. It most likely fell off soon after as it was just hanging over by a fold.

Pick saw a guy on a bicycle and offered him $20 bucks to get some pot.

Actually I saw a friend from school I knew fairly well.
I asked for  4 or 5 joints or at least two. I asked him how much and he said $20 ought to do it.

The attempt to buy pot had nothing to do with the shooting

You don't know that. These guys were within 30 yards of us when I was talking to my friend. Word could have got to them we had money.

We were on the way out

I remember I was  just turning around to face toward the exit in case I needed to get away fast. These guys were moving closer. I remember we were discussing how long we should wait before we just gave up on my friend.We weren't physically on the way out untill after the gun was pulled.


The possibilities are what I've mentioned. Rob us, kill us, or beat the hell out of us.  

The realm of possibilties extend beyond those three possibilties. That is where you make a mistake in reasoning.

Pick wanted evidence of something he's now admitted occurs.


Now admitted???

Never did I deny.  Show me where I ever denied it.

I asked for examples and what is wrong with that. I already know about my examples.
At any rate...I didn't ask for evidence of something I denied.
That's your spin to bolster your argument....And it's not true.

He's even given you a a few of his own experiences when he mentioned racial tension in his school, hearing bad jokes about black people, nasty comments.


So what.

Picks problem is first, he wanted to argue for the sake of arguing


You started saying that on your first post. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Plus you don't know that is what I wanted to do.Asking for examples is not a call to argue or a denial.
At any rate...it's not a problem at all. At least not for me.

In a different area of the hood
.
From what I remember the whole incident occured within about 100  yards from entrance to where the guys were to begin with.

He picked a little bullshit word out of my post, apparent, and attacked


Reality is you made a declarative statement. I asked a question about what you said. Then you made an unfounded assumption and started arguing. That is not in any way an attack. It may be in your mind or how it is you felt,but it is not reality. This can be easily verified in this thread.

You could have just answered the question.  


You like to spin. Your project when your angry.




Hookbender #108 · Oct 31, 2008 17:48 UTC
You are very inconsistent in your arguments. First you don't remember, now you try to say I'm wrong in what I posted. How did you repair your memory? Or, are you just making stuff up? You admitted not remembering this because it was so long ago. Now you have a good recollection of what happened all the sudden. I don't buy it. I don't believe what you say.

You question me about racism, then give your own examples to prove I'm partially correct in what I said. Incinsistent again. This proves your full of shit, and just arguing for the sake of arguing.
pickmaster60 #109 · Oct 31, 2008 20:23 UTC
You are very inconsistent in your arguments.

To claim that I'm being inconsistent ....your going to need to provide some good reasons as to why that is true.

Lets see if your argument holds water and is logical.

You gave a first reason in your next sentence.
Here it is: "
First you don't remember,now you try to say I'm wrong in what I say.


Stay with me here....it's real simple. Just think a little.

If you give a "first" that implies that there will be a second. Where is the second?

Next....What is it that I didn't remember? Did I say I didn't remember anything? NO I didn't.

I do remember much. Do I think my recolections are accurate? I would like to thinks so. Who doesn't want to rememeber everything and think  what they  they experience is the way that it is.

But that's just not the case.

This doesn't mean we can't remember anything.
The whole point of this is that you seem to be so sure what you are remembering. Like you think your correct. Seemingly unable to think that things may not be as your remember.
I rememeber what I remember. ...but I don't don't think it makes any kind of a relevent argument for racism.
Even if I did I don't think it would count much in an argument for it.

The reasons you give for that premise are weak.

How did you repair your memory?

Irrelevent and silly. A waste of time in trying to convince anybody o anything when you could be bolstering your argument.  

Or, are you just making stuff up?

 No,I have no reason to do that. This is just a way to try and make me out as someone who would lie to win an argument. Another waste of time when could be concentrating on proving your premise.

You admitted not remembering this because it was so long ago.


Not remembering this? not remembering what?
All I said was that I don't think my memory of things may not be perfect and that people can make mistakes. That's the reason we shouldn't state things as facts when in reality...they may not be.

.Now you have a good recollection of what happened all the sudden.

Again I didn't claim that I didn't. Yet you think your making some kind of argument here. Like that somehow proves what you say. But it doesn't and its obvious.

I don't believe what you say.  

You don't have to. It's not necessary. I wouldn't believe things without evidence either.
So what difference does that make?

 It doesn't bolster your arguement either.


 
You question me about racism, then give your own examples to prove I'm partially correct in what I said


That you were correct about what?  That  reverse racism  is " very apparent in Alabama?

I don't think so. I'm not going to argue agaist my premis that it's not.  


Incinsistent again

Not unless you show how it is  inconsitent.

This proves your full of shit, and just arguing for the sake of arguing
.

Hardly. You have yet to provide proof of anything. Your just jacking your jaw.

I have been very consistent in what I claim. You just assume way to much and believe your assumptions to be true.

Spining something does not make it convincing if you like facts.
It's not critical thinking. It's  not logical.

It is more like Jerry Springer arguments.
Please get some meat.

I'm not arguing just to argue alone. That would be a waste of time. My goal is to get you to a place where you can make a reasonable ,convincing arguement. One that doesn't waste time on irrelevent crap.

I would like to see you be able to support your claims with relevent information that makes a good argument. Clear,concise relevent.

But what you do now is make rash claims with no relevent supporting information.Then make up any reason you can think of ,logical or not,to not change your mind. It's ok to change your mind you know.

But you can avoid any of this by just giving it a liitle though. Just a little bit of effort to think things through. I think you can do it.
Why not start now and try to understand.

 


Hookbender #110 · Oct 31, 2008 23:32 UTC
;D ;D ;D ;D

I think I'll cook a steak. ;D ;D

Hookbender #111 · Oct 31, 2008 23:44 UTC
Explaining a situation that happened to me is not making up anything. And it's illogical of you to argue against me when you ultimately agree with me in the first place.

I farted.

I'd like to see you be consistent with what you say and argue points that are worth arguing.

I farted again.

I have gas.

Your not able to accept the reality of events that happen in your own state. Things you've witnessed your whole life. Are you defending your state, or arguing against me? I'd like things to change also, but thsat doesn't mean I should ignore the conditions on the ground here. ;D

Read some history books. That may give you some insight to why things are the way they are. I know you like to read and shit.....shit....I think I will. ;D
pickmaster60 #112 · Oct 31, 2008 23:59 UTC
Hookbender — Oct 31, 2008Explaining a situation that happened to me is not making up anything. And it's illogical of you to argue against me when you ultimately agree with me in the first place.

I farted.

I'd like to see you be consistent with what you say and argue points that are worth arguing.

I farted again.

I have gas.

Your not able to accept the reality of events that happen in your own state. Things you've witnessed your whole life. Are you defending your state, or arguing against me? I'd like things to change also, but thsat doesn't mean I should ignore the conditions on the ground here. ;D

Read some history books. That may give you some insight to why things are the way they are. I know you like to read and shit.....shit....I think I will. ;D


Making things up...huh? Are you arguing with yourself?
Where did this come from?

If your going to claim I'm inconsistent,you need to provide evidence. It is not true that I am.
Otherwise show me how I am. If you don't you are making things up.


Your not able to accept the reality of events that happen in your own state

Oh yeah?? What things?

Things you've witnessed your whole life

What things have I witnessed?


Are you defending your state, or arguing against me?


Defending my state?? what the hell are you talking about?
There may also be more choices than those two.

I'd like things to change also, but thsat doesn't mean I should ignore the conditions on the ground here. ;D



Your right!  Except what is " on the ground"??

Read some history books. That may give you some insight to why things are the way they are. I know you like to read


? Do you have a favorite that has been helpful for you?
I could use some more insight as to why things are the way they are.
Hookbender #113 · Nov 01, 2008 01:20 UTC
Why didn't you address my farts? Or the claim that I have gas?

I didn't provide evidence.

:D
Hookbender #114 · Nov 01, 2008 01:23 UTC
"To claim that I'm being inconsistent ....your going to need to provide some good reasons as to why that is true."

No....in this case I don't have to provide anything. Read this entire thread and the other one. You've done that for me.

Come on.....your the logic expert....read the entire thread and show me the evidence you've provided.


pickmaster60 #115 · Nov 01, 2008 01:48 UTC
Can you explain just one time I have been inconsistent?

I didn't find a single time.
Hookbender #116 · Nov 01, 2008 01:58 UTC
That's not surprising. Try again. Take a little longer to read through two entire threads this time. ;)

Better yet...why don't you ask Trip etc to do it for you. ;D ;D ;D
pickmaster60 #117 · Nov 01, 2008 02:21 UTC
I read it and I didn't find one time. Can you just provide one instance?
CraigB #118 · Nov 01, 2008 08:24 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 01, 2008Can you explain just one time I have been inconsistent?

I didn't find a single time.


I find you consistently are all over Hook's ass in every thread.  Check.  ;) :D ;D
Hookbender #119 · Nov 01, 2008 10:28 UTC
And that's why he's my slave right now.  ;D ;D

Follow the cookie trail Picky. ;D ;D
Hookbender #120 · Nov 01, 2008 11:42 UTC
What did you mean by racial tension? What were the circumstances?

Who were the nasty comments directed at and what kind of jokes were being told?

Who was using the N word? Blacks or whites, or both?
pickmaster60 #121 · Nov 01, 2008 15:24 UTC
CraigBert — Nov 01, 2008[quote author=pickmaster60 link=1224882683/100#113 date=1225504136]Can you explain just one time I have been inconsistent?

I didn't find a single time.


I find you consistently are all over Hook's ass in every thread.  Check.  ;) :D ;D

Well lets see. I had not been to the WH or here for maybe 8 months.
First post I make and Hooks says this in the Palin is thread:

What were you thinking? Are we suppose to read all those articles?  

What's your beef with Palin? At least try to make a point besides flaky.

McCain has grey hair and pauses to much.  

Pick the one that makes your point or whatever, who has time to read all that shit?    


Sounds like he's all over my ass! ;D

That probably set the tone. And he's come after me ever since. :P

It's so bad that if I even ask a question he goes off on me. ;D

This in the What was he thinking thread,my first post in that thread:
Me:
Bleeding heart liberal is a far right wing term isn't it?

Hook:  "Well, I'm a tool. I change definitions to please myself.  

But no, you are incorrect. "

Same here......Saying I'm incorrect,but he was wrong as hell.

On and on.
pickmaster60 #122 · Nov 01, 2008 17:46 UTC
Hook goes from one thread to the next being pounded.  Almost every thread he is in turns into Tripper,charger and fingers slamming him as he makes these crazy arguments. And that was before I got here.  ;D

He's the Bert cave punching bag and I can only assume he likes it! ;D

It's the same thing that happened to stratman  at the WH.  He brings it on himself.
pickmaster60 #123 · Nov 01, 2008 18:34 UTC
Hookbender — Nov 01, 2008What did you mean by racial tension? What were the circumstances?

Who were the nasty comments directed at and what kind of jokes were being told?

Who was using the N word? Blacks or whites, or both?


Racial tension.....Nothing much really. HS kids crap. Kinda like your arguements! ;D

The worst thing I remember at HS was about 5 or 6 blacks and about the same number of whites got into a squabble and racist remarks wre being accused ect.
One the group of white guys decided they were going to fight the blacks.

Two guys ended up fighting and the black guy threw the white guy down the stairs. Ended up with the white having his face broke up on the concrete stairs. He face looked like a jigsaw puzzle. he had a fair ampunt of surgery.
After that and for a number of months later rumour flew and blacks and whites choose sides.
Later it was all but forgoten.

The nasty comments? Just things in passing over the years. Mostly white guys making jokes about blacks ect.

The N word....Blacks don't think much about calling themselves that. I think it's meant in a different way than when a white guys uses it. At least most of the time.
It's pretty common to hear white guys talking amongst themselves in Alabama  calling a black guy as "a ++++" or "this ++++" ect.
I don't hear it everyday or anything.  

I just never see much overt racism.

I did work at a lockmith shop in B'ham a few years ago in B'ham and my supervisor wouldn't hire a black guy. Mostly because the owner was racist.

Hey...see how easy that was.
just answer the questions. Easy as pie.
Hookbender #124 · Nov 01, 2008 23:38 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 01, 2008[quote author=Hookbender link=1224882683/100#118 date=1225539755]What did you mean by racial tension? What were the circumstances?

Who were the nasty comments directed at and what kind of jokes were being told?

Who was using the N word? Blacks or whites, or both?


Racial tension.....Nothing much really. HS kids crap. Kinda like your arguements! ;D

The worst thing I remember at HS was about 5 or 6 blacks and about the same number of whites got into a squabble and racist remarks wre being accused ect.
One the group of white guys decided they were going to fight the blacks.

Two guys ended up fighting and the black guy threw the white guy down the stairs. Ended up with the white having his face broke up on the concrete stairs. He face looked like a jigsaw puzzle. he had a fair ampunt of surgery.
After that and for a number of months later rumour flew and blacks and whites choose sides.
Later it was all but forgoten.

The nasty comments? Just things in passing over the years. Mostly white guys making jokes about blacks ect.

The N word....Blacks don't think much about calling themselves that. I think it's meant in a different way than when a white guys uses it. At least most of the time.
It's pretty common to hear white guys talking amongst themselves in Alabama  calling a black guy as "a ++++" or "this ++++" ect.
I don't hear it everyday or anything.  

I just never see much overt racism.

I did work at a lockmith shop in B'ham a few years ago in B'ham and my supervisor wouldn't hire a black guy. Mostly because the owner was racist.

Hey...see how easy that was.
just answer the questions. Easy as pie.

If you didn't mean anything by racial tension, why did you use the term? It has a meaning ya know?

Racial remarks were being used? Is that what you meant? Can you give examples or better yet, were racial remarks used by whites and blacks?

Mostly white guys saying nasty remarks? Mostly? So did any black guys say or use nasty remarks? Or was it only white guys?

Is the N word a racist word? Does it have more than one meaning? How do you know what is meant by any black person using the N word? I don't think I ask you what you thought it meant. If the word has a definition, is it different for black people? If you think so, is that logical? How so?

How do you know the owner was racist? Did he tell you that? Can you provide some evidence that he's racist or that he instructed anyone not to hire black people? If he did instruct someone to not hire black people, what did you do about it? There are laws against that, I think. Something could have been done to change that situation, right? Did you continue to work for this guy knowing he was racist, in your opinion?

It's common to hear white guys....using bad language towards black people in general? Among themselves? Like apparent, maybe?
pickmaster60 #125 · Nov 02, 2008 00:58 UTC
If you didn't mean anything by racial tension, why did you use the term? It has a meaning ya know?


I didn't say it didn't mean anything...I said 'Nothing much really" Then I gave a story that happened in HS.

Racial remarks were being used?
 yes

Is that what you meant?
yes


Can you give examples or better yet, were racial remarks used by whites and blacks?


I guess they were....Maybe not. I just don't think about that stuff much.

Mostly white guys saying nasty remarks? Mostly?
Yes
So did any black guys say or use nasty remarks? Or was it only white guys?


In HS? Mostly whites.   Blacks not much that I remember.

Is the N word a racist word?
I think so.

Does it have more than one meaning?
I think so.


How do you know what is meant by any black person using the N word?
By the context that it's used in.


I don't think I ask you what you thought it meant. If the word has a definition, is it different for black people? If you think so, is that logical? How so?


Words can have different meanings depending on context. How it's used in a sentence ect.
Nothing illogical about it.

How do you know the owner was racist?
I don't know for sure. The guy who was my boss and who hired me told me the owner was. Doesn't mean he was telling the truth.
 
Can you provide some evidence that he's racist or that he instructed anyone not to hire black people?
No

Something could have been done to change that situation, right?

Perhaps

Did you continue to work for this guy knowing he was racist, in your opinion?

Yes..for a while. Later I was fired.


It's common to hear white guys....using bad language towards black people in general? Among themselves?Like in apparent?



It would be apparent to those who hear it yes.
BINGEWOOD #126 · Nov 02, 2008 02:00 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 01, 2008Hey...see how easy that was.
just answer the questions. Easy as pie.

Hookbender #127 · Nov 02, 2008 17:33 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 02, 2008If you didn't mean anything by racial tension, why did you use the term? It has a meaning ya know?


I didn't say it didn't mean anything...I said 'Nothing much really" Then I gave a story that happened in HS.

Racial remarks were being used?
 yes

Is that what you meant?
yes


Can you give examples or better yet, were racial remarks used by whites and blacks?


I guess they were....Maybe not. I just don't think about that stuff much.

Mostly white guys saying nasty remarks? Mostly?
Yes
So did any black guys say or use nasty remarks? Or was it only white guys?


In HS? Mostly whites.   Blacks not much that I remember.

Is the N word a racist word?
I think so.

Does it have more than one meaning?
I think so.


How do you know what is meant by any black person using the N word?
By the context that it's used in.


I don't think I ask you what you thought it meant. If the word has a definition, is it different for black people? If you think so, is that logical? How so?


Words can have different meanings depending on context. How it's used in a sentence ect.
Nothing illogical about it.

How do you know the owner was racist?
I don't know for sure. The guy who was my boss and who hired me told me the owner was. Doesn't mean he was telling the truth.
 
Can you provide some evidence that he's racist or that he instructed anyone not to hire black people?
No

Something could have been done to change that situation, right?

Perhaps

Did you continue to work for this guy knowing he was racist, in your opinion?

Yes..for a while. Later I was fired.


It's common to hear white guys....using bad language towards black people in general? Among themselves?Like in apparent?



It would be apparent to those who hear it yes.

Seems to me you've given examples that are irrevelent to the discussion. They are hearsay at best and you have no evidence to back your examples up. So they mean nothing. Just random statements that have nothing to do with the conversation. Sound familiar?

You "guess" racial remarks were used by blacks and whites? You guess? Selective memory you have there sonny. Kinda limited isn't it? So you only remember that white people used racial remarks? Or, do you remember racial remarks used by blacks....they were just less in quantity than whites? Is it fair to say black people used racial language towards whites, you just can't give examples? If you guess they were used, that means there is a possibility they were not used. You can't remember. If you have no memory of and racial language, why not say so? Why guess? Do you remember any racial language used by blacks or whites? Simple question.

So the N words meaning changes depending on who uses the word and the context it's used in? Could the same be said for white people who use the word? If so, why can't I type that word on this forum?

So as a kid, you had as rebel flag on your car. As a adult, you worked for what you thought was a racist who fired you. ;D You did nothing to change the situation. Did it not matter to you that you worked for a racist? Are your actions continuing the pattern of racism or stoping the pattern of racism?

It would be appearent to those who hear it? So if I witness black racism, it would be appearent to me that it exist, right? Sure it would.

Now....you have a problem with the word appearent. That's the word I used. You seem to disagree with the way I used that term.

You live in a Albertville Alabama, right? A town that is 80% white and 2% black. TWO percent. So is it appearent to you that black racism exist....probably not. And it's not fair, logical, or reasonable for you to disagree so strongly with me with such a limited view point. I travel the entire state of Alabama, staying and working in towns for 3 or 4 days at a time. Sometimes going back to these towns time and time again. Now that doesn't make me a expert, but I see much more of what goes on in this state than you do. In different towns or cities. And my experiences show that it is appearent that black racism exist. Not as much as white racism, but it is very appearent to me. I hear it, and see it, and experience it.

pickmaster60 #128 · Nov 03, 2008 02:54 UTC
Seems to me you've given examples that are irrevelent to the discussion.

No,I've given answers to your questions that are irrelevent to my question.

Namely:
Do you care to elaborate about the black racists in Alabama?  


They are hearsay at best and you have no evidence to back your examples up.

I'm not giving evedence of anything...... just answering your questions.

Hearsay doesn't count for much,that's why I wouldn't use it as evidence.


So they mean nothing.

That's a matter of opinion.

Just random statements that have nothing to do with the conversation

Hardly. They have to do with your questions.


.
Sound familiar?

Yes,it's what you have done for the last six pages.

You "guess" racial remarks were used by blacks and whites?

Yep

You guess?

Yes
Selective memory you have there sonny

Hmmm.....I don't think so. But even if my memory was selective that doesn't illustrate how reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama

Kinda limited isn't it?

Not that I'm aware of. What is it that is limited?

So you only remember that white people used racial remarks?

For the most part that is right.

Or, do you remember racial remarks used by blacks....they were just less in quantity than whites?

That's right.

Is it fair to say black people used racial language towards whites, you just can't give examples?

Yes,but that depends on how you mean this. I can give examples of racial language.
I don't have any specific examples. I might think of some though.

But this wouldn't help your argument that  reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama.


If you guess they were used, that means there is a possibility they were not used.

Right...just unlikely. But my guessing doesn't change the odds. And really that statement is a fallacy.
My guessing doesn't have anything to do with the possibilties of racial language actually being used.

If it did it wouldn't mean that reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama.

You can't remember.

I can remember my name!


If you have no memory of and racial language, why not say so?

Because I do have memories of it. Mostly vague ones.

If I had no memory of racial language, I would say that


If I had no memory it still wouldn't mean that reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama.
Why guess?

I might guess right.   ;D

But even if I guessed wrong .....yep you guessed it....it doesn't illustrate how reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama.

Do you remember any racial language used by blacks or whites? Simple question.

Yes! ............Simple answer.

So the N words meaning changes depending on who uses the word and the context it's used in?

Correct. You can repeat me well!

Could the same be said for white people who use the word?


Yes


If so, why can't I type that word on this forum?

I don't know. I'd be interested in that myself.


So as a kid, you had as rebel flag on your car.

I remember having one.

As a adult, you worked for what you thought was a racist who fired you.

Right again.

 
You did nothing to change the situation

I voiced my opinion that it was wrong.

.
Did it not matter to you that you worked for a racist?


Yeah it mattered. That's one reason I voiced my concern.

Are your actions continuing the pattern of racism or stoping the pattern of racism?

It's not stopping it or continuing it I guess ;D
I doubt voicing my concern did much of anything other than it may have been a part of why I was fired. But I doubt it.
To some slight degree it might be helping to curb racism. Perhaps my boss at the time and the owner of the company have now ceased to practice this practice because of my concern.


It would be appearent to those who hear it?


I think so

So if I witness black racism, it would be appearent to me that it exist, right?

Sure it would.

Now....you have a problem with the word appearent.

Not now or ever. It's just a word.

I could have a problem with your misspelling of it though....but I don't.



That's the word I used

I don't know if it's "the" word you used. But you have used that word.

.
You seem to disagree with the way I used that term.


No I seem to have a problem with your idea that reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama.
That should be pretty obvious by now I think.

You live in a Albertville Alabama, right?


Yes


A town that is 80% white and 2% black. TWO percent.

Ok,I'll take your word for it.

So is it appearent to you that black racism exist....

It is not very apparent to me. Hey...that's why I asked you about it.



And it's not fair, logical, or reasonable for you to disagree so strongly with me with such a limited view point.


Did I disagree strongly? I don't think I did.

You should explain why your view is fair, logical, or reasonable because you are making the claim.

Even if your sentence above was true it doesn't further your argument that racism is very apparent in Alabama.
It would just mean that I didn't have a strong argument.

If I were agreeing with you with a limited view point would I be unfair,illogical or unreasonable?

but I see much more of what goes on in this state than you do

If this is true...it doesn't mean that your claim "reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama" is true.


I travel the entire state of Alabama, staying and working in towns for 3 or 4 days at a time. Sometimes going back to these towns time and time again. Now that doesn't make me a expert, but I see much more of what goes on in this state than you do. In different towns or cities. And my experiences show that it is appearent that black racism exist. Not as much as white racism, but it is very appearent to me. I hear it, and see it, and experience it.

Just because it is apparent to you doesn't mean it's apparent to others.
Your customer demographics could be one reason you feel that way.

And my experiences show that it is appearent that black racism exist

Your experiences  lead you to believe that black racism is very apparent to you. It might show that black racism exists. But not that it is very apparent in Alabama.

If it's not as much as white racism then black racism is less apparent.



So you have never answered my question. You've gone on for pages about everything but my question.

Do you care to elaborate about the black racists in Alabama?
Maybe give some examples of it.  


 
Hookbender #129 · Nov 03, 2008 14:33 UTC
Black racism isn't gonna be apparent to you because you live in a town that's 80% white. You don't know what's apparent in Alabama, the state, as far as black racist are concerned, because you have no experience outside your 80% white town. So it doesn't matter that you have a problem with my statement or not.

Why didn't you mention you voiced your opinion about working for a racist in your initial post? Seems you would want to cover your ass at that point before you wee questioned about it. Not sure I believe you. And you still continued working for the man, so it really doesn't matter, does it?

Examples of black racism......yes. I could give examples. But as I've already stated, it wouldn't validate my claim. Therefore it would be a waste of time. It wouldn't be evidence.

I've also stated, in a post to Binge, I belive, that I should have rephrased my initial statement.

In your post above, seems you think I'm right in my initial statement, and you have a problem with it. Not very consistent. Especially if you, meaning you personally, have no experience outside your village of white folk. You very rarely even see a black person where you live based on the mixture of people there. So there is no way for you to have a clue as to what I'm talking about.

You don't deny that black racist exist in Alabama. So even you leave the door open to the possibility that I could be correct.

Therefore, this argument is stupid, as I've said before, and kinda funny to me.

And that's why, when I notice you picking at stupid little crap in my post, I'm gonna feed you and fuck with you just a tad. ;D So, I hope you enjoy it. ;D ;D You have been warned. ;D  

It also seems that I have answered your questions, you just didn't like the answer. ;D ;D
pickmaster60 #130 · Nov 03, 2008 14:39 UTC
Black racism isn't gonna be apparent to you because you live in a town that's 80% white. You don't know what's apparent in Alabama, the state, as far as black racist are concerned, because you have no experience outside your 80% white town. So it doesn't matter that you have a problem with my statement or not.  



That is illogical and not true.
I do travel outside my town.
I do watch news and read news papers,magazines internet ect.
I lived in B'ham a long time.
I do know others who live in various places in Alabama.
I may have lived in Alabama longer than you as well...It might be enough to make my experience at least equal to yours.

Why didn't you mention you voiced your opinion about working for a racist in your initial post? Seems you would want to cover your ass at that point before you wee questioned about it. Not sure I believe you. And you still continued working for the man, so it really doesn't matter, does it?


There was no reason to mention it at the time.
I have no reason to cover my ass.
Yes...it still matters.
pickmaster60 #131 · Nov 03, 2008 14:44 UTC
Examples of black racism......yes. I could give examples. But as I've already stated, it wouldn't validate my claim. Therefore it would be a waste of time. It wouldn't be evidence.

I've also stated, in a post to Binge, I belive, that I should have rephrased my initial statement.  


Then you should rephrase your initial statement

You don't deny that black racist exist in Alabama. So even you leave the door open to the possibility that I could be correct.


I don't think reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama.  I think black racism does exist in Alabama.
The possibility that it exists very apparently would be nearly none...I think.
pickmaster60 #132 · Nov 03, 2008 14:51 UTC
Therefore, this argument is stupid, as I've said before, and kinda funny to me.  

And that's why, when I notice you picking at stupid little crap in my post, I'm gonna feed you and fuck with you just a tad.  So, I hope you enjoy it.   You have been warned.    

It also seems that I have answered your questions, you just didn't like the answer.  


If it's stupid to you thats fine.

I don't nitpick stupid little crap. I question your assertion that reverse racism is very apparent. I have from the start.

It does not seem you have answered my question.

If I ask the question and you don't answer it that means you did not answer it. So it does not seem that you did because yoiu didn't.
pickmaster60 #133 · Nov 03, 2008 15:02 UTC
This would be an answer to my question:

Question:
Do you care to elaborate about the black racists in Alabama?
Maybe give some examples of it.  

Answer:
No, I don't care to do that.


Another possible answer:

No I don't. In fact I'd like to rephrase my statement to reflect what I meant.

 





 
pickmaster60 #134 · Nov 03, 2008 15:59 UTC
In your post above, seems you think I'm right in my initial statement, and you have a problem with it. Not very consistent


No it doesn't..

If your gonna claim that you need to show how that is so.

I agree forms of racism goes both ways. I think it is that way everywhere.

I asked about the black racism or  black racists.

But that doesn't mean I think black racism is very apparent in Alabama.

It might be to you. That does not mean you can claim that for others .

It's a rather odd claim in my view.

If it is to others,I'd like to see some evidence of that. I couldn't find any on the internet. I don't see it myself. You won't give me any. Nobody here has given me any.
The onus is on you. You made the odd claim.

I wonder what stratman thinks? ;D



Hookbender #135 · Nov 03, 2008 16:21 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 03, 2008Black racism isn't gonna be apparent to you because you live in a town that's 80% white. You don't know what's apparent in Alabama, the state, as far as black racist are concerned, because you have no experience outside your 80% white town. So it doesn't matter that you have a problem with my statement or not.  



That is illogical and not true.
I do travel outside my town.
I do watch news and read news papers,magazines internet ect.
I lived in B'ham a long time.
I do know others who live in various places in Alabama.

Why didn't you mention you voiced your opinion about working for a racist in your initial post? Seems you would want to cover your ass at that point before you wee questioned about it. Not sure I believe you. And you still continued working for the man, so it really doesn't matter, does it?


There was no reason to mention it at the time.
I have no reason to cover my ass.
Yes...it still matters.

You read magazines? Like southern outdoors? Name them Mr. Palin.

It's not illogical, it's factual. Your view of the entire state of Alabama is very limited at best. You basically live in a all white city. And it is true. Show me where I'm wrong. The evidence has been presented by me/you. Can you prove me and you wrong?

Where do you travel outside your town? Gulf Shores? Bham every once in a while? Could it be said that you stay in your town at least 95% of the time, if not more? It doesn't matter that you know pwople in other towns. How often do you visit them and for how long are your visits? Irrevelent.

Maybe the important question here is are you racist yourself? If you joined the KKK, after you voiced your opinion, would you still remain a member if they didn't change their ways or beliefs? ;D Do you still have a rebel flag on your car?
Hookbender #136 · Nov 03, 2008 16:26 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 03, 2008Examples of black racism......yes. I could give examples. But as I've already stated, it wouldn't validate my claim. Therefore it would be a waste of time. It wouldn't be evidence.

I've also stated, in a post to Binge, I belive, that I should have rephrased my initial statement.  


Then you should rephrase your initial statement

You don't deny that black racist exist in Alabama. So even you leave the door open to the possibility that I could be correct.


I don't think reverse racism is very apparent in Alabama.  I think black racism does exist in Alabama.
The possibility that it exists very apparently would be nearly none...I think.

I did rephrase my initial statement, you just choose to ignore it. Another reason I'll fuck with you a tad from time to time.

You don't think it's apparent because you are not around black people. You have no idea what the possibilities are, your not around black people enough to know.
pickmaster60 #137 · Nov 03, 2008 16:27 UTC
Can you prove me and you wrong?



I we were both wrong there would be much more than you think or less than what I think or something in between.
Or none.Or all.

I don't need to prove you wrong. The onus is on you.

If you have changed you original statement show me!
Hookbender #138 · Nov 03, 2008 16:33 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 03, 2008In your post above, seems you think I'm right in my initial statement, and you have a problem with it. Not very consistent


No it doesn't..

If your gonna claim that you need to show how that is so.

I agree forms of racism goes both ways. I think it is that way everywhere.

I asked about the black racism or  black racists.

But that doesn't mean I think black racism is very apparent in Alabama.

It might be to you. That does not mean you can claim that for others .

It's a rather odd claim in my view.

If it's not to others,I'd like to see some evidence of that. I couldn't find any on the internet. I don't see it myself. You won't give me any. Nobody here has given me any.
The onus is on you. You made the odd claim.

I wonder what stratman thinks? ;D






We agree that if I'm around black people that are racist, it would be apparent to me that black racism exits. So it would be accurate for me to say that black racism is apparent in Alabama. You have a problem with the word apparent, but you have no clue what is apparent in Alabama, as far as black racism is concerned, because you are not around black people. Evidence has been provided to show that.

The claim is odd to you, again, because your not around black people. You live in a race cubical.
Hookbender #139 · Nov 03, 2008 16:34 UTC
f-er
pickmaster60 #140 · Nov 03, 2008 16:39 UTC
We agree that if I'm around black people that are racist, it would be apparent to me that black racism exits. So it would be accurate for me to say that black racism is apparent in Alabama



Actually you claim was "very Apparent"...more spin.
You could say it's apparent to you.




No ...it would not be accurate to say that black racism is very apparent in Alabama because it is to you.


.That is very illogical.

You NEED this:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html
Hookbender #141 · Nov 03, 2008 16:44 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 03, 2008We agree that if I'm around black people that are racist, it would be apparent to me that black racism exits. So it would be accurate for me to say that black racism is apparent in Alabama



No it would not be accurate.That is very illogical.

You NEED this:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html

No....I think you need it.


Second, logic is not a set of rules which govern human behavior. Humans may have logically conflicting goals. For example:

John wishes to speak to whomever is in charge.
The person in charge is Steve.
Therefore John wishes to speak to Steve.
Unfortunately, John may have a conflicting goal of avoiding Steve, meaning that the reasoned answer may be inapplicable to real life.

This document only explains how to use logic; you must decide whether logic is the right tool for the job. There are other ways to communicate, discuss and debate.

Then a little reasoning study would do you good.


Quote .....

It's common to hear white guys....using bad language towards black people in general? Among themselves?Like in apparent? (ME)


It would be apparent to those who hear it yes. (YOU)

So if I hear it in Alabama, it's apparent.

Make up your mind, Mr. consistent.



Hookbender #142 · Nov 03, 2008 16:58 UTC
Alabama-9-0. Number one in the country.  8-)
pickmaster60 #143 · Nov 03, 2008 17:02 UTC
We agree that if I'm around black people that are racist, it would be apparent to me that black racism exits. So it would be accurate for me to say that black racism is very apparent in Alabama


I corrected your claim above by adding the word very.

If both of us agree you are around black people that are racist it would be fair to say It is apparent to you. Even very apparent to you.

It does not mean that it is very apparent to other people inside or outside of Alabama.

The statement that it is ......may not be true because we don't know that.
Therefore it is not necessarily an accurate statement. It could be.
But there is no compelling argument that it is. No reasonable evidence as of yet.

It is so far just your opinion.





pickmaster60 #144 · Nov 03, 2008 17:05 UTC
Quote .....

It's common to hear white guys....using bad language towards black people in general? Among themselves?Like in apparent? (ME)


It would be apparent to those who hear it yes. (YOU)

So if I hear it in Alabama, it's apparent.

Make up your mind, Mr. consistent.




I haven't changed it. Again I rarely hear it.
More spin.
CraigB #145 · Nov 03, 2008 17:07 UTC
Hookbender — Nov 03, 2008Alabama-9-0. Number one in the country.  8-)


Most racists?  :D
pickmaster60 #146 · Nov 03, 2008 17:09 UTC
I think I've explained enough.
It's not really fun to argue for no reason.
I'll have to give this one up.
I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore.

Hookbender #147 · Nov 03, 2008 17:30 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 03, 2008Quote .....

It's common to hear white guys....using bad language towards black people in general? Among themselves?Like in apparent? (ME)


It would be apparent to those who hear it yes. (YOU)

So if I hear it in Alabama, it's apparent.

Make up your mind, Mr. consistent.




I haven't changed it. Again I rarely hear it.
More spin.


No spin. Just inconsistency on your part that I pointed out. Earlier you ask me to point that out. Now it seems you don't like it. Hmmmm.
Hookbender #148 · Nov 03, 2008 17:36 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 03, 2008We agree that if I'm around black people that are racist, it would be apparent to me that black racism exits. So it would be accurate for me to say that black racism is very apparent in Alabama


I corrected your claim above by adding the word very.

If both of us agree you are around black people that are racist it would be fair to say It is apparent to you. Even very apparent to you.

It does not mean that it is very apparent to other people inside or outside of Alabama.

The statement that it is ......may not be true because we don't know that.
Therefore it is not necessarily an accurate statement. It could be.
But there is no compelling argument that it is. No reasonable evidence as of yet.

It is so far just your opinion.







The word very was used later. You took that word out of context. Remember, context is important to you. My initial statement didn't include the word "very". Spin, on your part. Only for real.

And as I just told you, I rephrased the statement in a post to Binge that you ignored. Because you simply want to argue for no reason...again, a real and apparent assessment.

And of course it wouldn't be apparent to people outside of Alabama, they don't live here. ;D Jesus man. ;D ;D

And yes, it is my opinion based on my experiences. Duh...
Hookbender #149 · Nov 03, 2008 17:38 UTC
pickmaster60 — Nov 03, 2008I think I've explained enough.
It's not really fun to argue for no reason.
I'll have to give this one up.
I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore.



Why, cause your starting to dig yourself a hole? ;D ;D ;D

Suddenly, I'm not such a punching bag anymore. ;D ;D

You never answered my question...are you a racist? Do you still have a rebel flag on your car?

It's simple, just answer the questions. ;D ;D ;D
pickmaster60 #150 · Nov 03, 2008 18:07 UTC
reply #3 :'(
BINGEWOOD #151 · Nov 03, 2008 18:56 UTC
"I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people"